Ellen Ma

My motivation is breaking the ceiling for different types of people - for women, for being an Asian person because people always assume we're just timid and we just say yes but that's not the case, and for being an immigrant. I remember meeting a group of guys in college who were all Ivy League kids, and I just thought we were friends hanging out. One of them came to me and said if I had no idea what I was doing, to come work for his uncle. I said I didn't know how I would fit in because they only hire top-notch kids, but he said 'screw it, you can do this.' So I gave it a shot at Point 72, which is owned by Steve Cohen. The group of guys I hung out with were kind enough to get me in the door, and I was able to prove my worth. I wanted to take on the challenge of AI because I learn very fast, and I wanted to see if I could learn it - and I sure did. I also have a huge family, mostly girls, nieces, and I want them to feel and know that women can break into a lot of these roles that are male-dominated. I started out as a sell-side analyst and was the only woman on the trading floor at the time. I remember telling myself, this is what I want to be - I want to be able to break these types of ceilings for other women and show other young ladies that it is possible.

One of my ex-managers at Moody's, who everyone was scared of including myself, noticed that I was somewhat timid. I remember him telling me, 'You don't need to be timid. You don't need to raise your hand for hard, ambiguous problems - that's where you learn.' He said to always be relentless about curiosity, never wait for permission, and that's where you're going to learn the most and how you build a strong reputation. He told me to only keep around people - mentors, sponsors, managers, peers - who will always challenge you. And he reminded me that no one can ever succeed alone. This is a group exercise for the rest of your life. He really molded me at Moody's, and although I thought he was nuts at the time, his advice has stayed with me throughout my career.

You can't just read what you see on Instagram or LinkedIn or any of these things. You really need to actually talk to the people who do this day in and day out. If the person you're talking to can't specifically tell you to the T what they did to get there - like the actual project - chances are they don't know. You almost have to be your own investigator and continue to meet people, ask questions, and stay so curious to the point where you have to buy books to learn what that word meant. Just stay curious. You also really have to learn how to think outside the box. The biggest challenge right now is how do you present yourself in a way beyond your resume, beyond your LinkedIn, and it goes back to building those relationships and networking as much as you can. Make sure that if you're interviewing somebody to figure out how to do this, you ask them specific questions about their actual work and projects, not just general advice.

I feel really bad for college graduates right now. It's not just AI - the industry is shrinking, and it's really to do with the economy. Because of that, it's gotten very competitive. There are certain companies where if you do not come from a top-name school, they just automatically throw you away. But I've done a lot of things outside my job where I genuinely have shown value and ROI in my own life, so why is that not possible here? The biggest challenge is how do you present yourself in a way beyond your resume, beyond your LinkedIn. It goes back to building those relationships and networking as much as you can. That's the biggest challenge right now - the tough competition combined with companies shrinking and the uncertainty of what's going on. I see a lot of headlines about companies letting people go over AI, which I think they're lying about because it's not there yet. I don't want other executives thinking that is something they can do.

You really have to be a good human. If you don't have something genuine in your heart to want to help others, if you don't have integrity, people can smell you like bad cologne. The moment people find out who you really are, it's over. I'm very blunt, and if I don't like you, you know I don't like you, and usually it's because you're fake or you just use people at work. That is something I cannot stand. I'm very big on making sure to stand up for the most junior person in the room, or the person who reminds me of me when I was very timid in starting out. I want them to know I'm here because there was somebody there for me too when I was in your shoes. I think it's important that the ones who have that type of energy should continue to preach and live by those rules. We should be connectors and help people stay human, especially as technology is moving so fast.